For the past eighteen months, or maybe even more, road rap—the darker, menacing strain of British hip-hop—has had to share its light with a new sound, an off-shoot, which nods heavily to Chicago, called UK drill. While we’ve all enjoyed the trap drum-heaviness of the productions, and the drawn-out flows of Harlem Spartans, K-Trap, 67 et al, from taking a quick look online, UK rap fans are still yearning for a lyrical substance that’s not always easy to find in drill music, on either sides of the Atlantic. But a shift is currently taking place.

Along with the more lyrically inclined rhymers like Youngs Teflon, Blade Brown, Giggs, Skrapz and Nines, the musical rawness of Young Spray is never not in demand. There’s always conversations to be had about whether or not certain rappers live that on-the-edge life they spit about on wax, but when it comes to Young Spray, this is never in question. I first took (serious) note of the Walthamstow-via-Tottenham rapper back in 2009, the year in which he dropped the second part in his mixtape series, Realer Than Most. Undeniably a classic, the 27-tracker was fuelled by street rage and anger at the system, but also gave listeners an honest look into Spray’s life at the time.

Having gone to prison a few times over, which definitely hindered his career at points, Young Spray is now at a stage in life where music has to pay. Previously signed to pop star Lily Allen’s Bank Holiday Records (a single deal for “Sho”) and now independent—with his debut album, Invisible Tears, out right now—Mr RTM is here to stay.

This interview has been a long time coming. I remember I was meant to interview you for XXL back in 2012, but I think you had gone to prison the week of. But today is a better day.

My brudda, JP! I think that was 2013 you know, but yeah—way, way overdue.

The post-Channel U generation might not know that you actually started out in a group called Northstar, with rapper C1 and singer Chyna. How did you initially link up with the both of them?

I went to jail when I was 16 and that’s where I bucked up with C1—we just became good friends from there. And because Walthamstow’s right next to Tottenham, it was easy to keep in touch when we both got out. I actually started out doing poetry; I used to write poetry in jail. Then it turned into me spitting my poetry but I kept it to myself, really. So then I started rapping, came out of jail, and I would rap in front of my bredrins and they’d be like, “You’re sick, bro! You need to go studio.” So I went studio and done “Why Is It Got To Be This Way?” and “Getaway”, which I did on my own. C1 was there doing some Northstar stuff with my bredrin, who’s dead now, and they were doing their ting. To cut a long story short, he heard my tunes and told me he was forming a group and that I should come and join. I was hesitant at first, but I soon changed my mind and that’s how it all started. We put the “On A Rise” single out, and that was No. 1 on Channel U for weeks on-end.

They used to play you guys non-stop! I couldn’t go a day without seeing your video on there [laughs].

[Laughs] The support was crazy! So we had “On A Rise”, we had “Love Like This”, “This Is Our Time” and “Rolling With The Nines”. We had them four, and performed them in countries like Kazakhstan, Greece, Ayia Napa, Corfu and Magaluf.

It’s been more than a minute since we’ve heard a Northstar project. Is everyone just doing their solo thing?

I’m the only one who’s really out here doing anything. C1’s not doing music. I think Chyna might be doing something on the underground, but I’m not fully sure.

I also think it’s important to note the strong connection Northstar had with So Solid Crew back in the day. North and South London didn’t always get along, which is a known fact, but I feel you guys helped build a unity and mutual respect for both ends.

As far as our generation’s concerned, it’s always been patterned. At that time, we all used to rave together. We had it locked! No one could talk to us. So obviously, they were the big thing, So Solid, so it made the link up natural in dances. C1 and Lisa Maffia were together as well, so that made it even more solid. We definitely bridged a gap, though, you’re right. That pattern is still very strong.

From listening to your content over the years, it’s obvious that music was more of an afterthought than something you grew up wanting to pursue. The streets came first, and that’s played a big part in your work. Whilst out on the grind, or more from an inspirational standpoint, which artists would you listen to the most?

I used to listen to 2Pac a lot, Biggie, 50 Cent, DMX. You know what era I’m talking about—the real era! Snoop, even down to Cam’ron and Juelz Santana—all them cats. My earliest influence was actually Juelz Santana. He was a big influence on Northstar Spray. Moorish Delta, Malik MD7—them man inspired me as well. Malik made me think I can rap in an English accent; everyone was rapping American, but he had that Birmingham twang. He made me think I could spit bars like that. They were one of the first to come through spitting in our accent.

Your 2009 mixtape, Realer Than Most Vol. 2, was what initially caught my attention. Realer Than Most Vol. 1 was hard-in-the-paint too, but you could definitely hear the growth from that to the second tape. What would you say is your favourite out of the trilogy?

It’s got to be Realer Than Most Vol. 1 because that’s when I said to myself that I was gonna take this music thing seriously. It was a case of “Do I give this up or do I continue?” So that project meant a lot to me. That was me saying “I’m Young Spray and I’m continuing this music journey.” Vol. 2 is up there, though, and I get a lot of people saying that’s their favourite. But for the new-school guys, it’s usually Hard 2 Kill.

All of your projects are raw—straight up, UK hood music. But generally speaking, as time’s gone on, I think road rap has definitely lost some of its earlier grit. As one of the premier rappers, what would you say to that?

It’s got a bit gimmicky. A lot of people now, it feels like it’s based on how much you’re making. That’s what people want to rap about. All these artists trying to do the biggest, most expensive videos... It feels like it’s going into that. Before, it was about real shit. With me, it’s not just about the rudeboy ting—man’s feeling that pain as well. If my feet are smelly it’s ‘cos I ain’t been home-type shit. I’m talking about cotching on my bredrin’s sofa and that. I was going mad, but it’s about letting it out. Everyone’s just on this classy ting. The lickle drill ting… I didn’t understand it too much at first, but now I’m getting to like it. I prefer it to the happy-happy stuff.

How would you say that Walthamstow and North London in general has shaped you as a person?

My life experiences made me the person I am, not necessarily the area. Things I’ve been through, things I’ve seen. I wasn’t even born in this country.

Dominica, right? When did you move over here to London?

I moved here when I was 7.

Was it a culture shock?

I never knew there were so many white people! [Laughs] I’d never seen snow before—just little things like that. It would start snowing, and man would really be excited for the snow! So stuff like that was a bit of a culture shock, but you know when you’re young, it’s easy to adapt.

So, the debut album, Invisible Tears. How excited are you for it to finally be out?

It’s been a long time coming, bro. Everyone gave me a good verse; no one came with half-hearted verses. I just wanted to get the giants of my time. Blade Brown, to me, is one of the pillars; Giggs is one of the pillars. Obviously, man comes first [laughs]... I had to take DVS off because of that thing, though.

He had so much potential. It’s a shame, but we can’t condone what he did.

Trust me. But you should’ve heard the tune, bro! Very, very hard.

I bet it was.

It was a proper gyal tune and would’ve done a lot for us both. Me and him on a gyal tune was due to get loads of radio play. I’m just gonna take his verse off and do a next verse. Ayo, Blade, Sneakbo—they were all just natural links. It’s not where I have to go through this person or that person; nothing with me is ever forced.

Lyrically, subject-wise, what is the album telling people? What’s the core message here?

Well: you’ve got the pain tunes, the rudeboy tunes, and the gyal tunes. Snap Capone—if you hear Snap and Spray on a tune, you know it’s gonna be a madness. Spray and Giggs, that’s a rudeboy tune. Spray and Fekky, that’s a rudeboy tune as well. Then I’ve got a gyal tune called “#Winner #Sinner” and I’ve got another gyal tune with my boy, Ayo. It’s kinda like that: couple gyal tunes, couple pain tunes. There’s even a couple for the grime fans. I'm just trying to keep with the times, but I only do things that make sense. I just wanted to make songs I could put out; I’m old now, so you can’t expect me to be saying the same things I did in 2007. It’s not like when man was actually stepping on it—this is actually my job now.

Do you care about the charts?

Man just wants to take it as far as man can take it. At the moment, obviously it’s independent so we’ve just got to do as much as we can do. But, you know, money makes money and all that. My main objective with this album was to make sure it was available to prison inmates.

You’ve got mad fans in there; I’ve got people inside who love Young Spray.

That’s where my biggest fanbase is, so I wanted to make sure they were able to purchase it from the canteen.

Do you see anyone as your competition?

I don’t really watch no one, which is why I’ve been able to stay relevant for all this time. If I had been watching people, I’d have given up a long time ago. The amount of people I’ve seen come and go, they first come to me for certification—but they come and they go. I think if I was watching people, I wouldn’t be able to stay motivated.

Even down to the industry: if I got caught up in what people thought, I would not be here today. You see you, you can tell you listen to the music properly. You’re telling me about things not everyone knows. I came before Giggs, for example, and there’s certain people who would rather keep that fact quiet. Like Posty. And I’m gonna tell him when I do Not For The Radio. It’s like whatever they want to push, they mark up the history. But you shouldn’t really do that. I don’t feel like I get given my props from the industry; I get given my props from certain people, like when I go out and see these artists and they get gassed, but they’ll do an interview and won’t ever mention me. For me, without blowing my own trumpet, I feel like I’ve done a lot for the scene. I’ve influenced a lot of shit! I went to Grime Originals the other day and everyone showed mad love and respect. So I do get it, but as far as the actual industry’s concerned, they would rather just leave me alone. You know when your reputation precedes you? That’s me. People just think I’m this fuckin’ monster! They’ve never met me, but that’s what they think. They’ve heard what I’ve done or my lyrics or whatever, but I’d rather just buss jokes—I’m not that guy. It’s a very different situation when people actually meet me. The last three years, that’s been me trying to make them see that. I’ve been going to certain places so they see there’s no trouble.

From the outside looking in, it looks like it’s working.

It’s gotten a lot better. That’s down to these lot at [Island records sub-label and management team] EGA because they’re known as cool people.That’s what I knew I needed. My journey’s not the same as everyone else’s. It’s not as easy, but these guys have helped change people’s perceptions a lot. As for the charts, man’s not really concerned about all that. To me, this is my first proper project out here so that’s where my happiness is. My whole thing is I’ve got my merchandise.

I remember those Realer Than Most t-shirts from back in the day.

Even now, people still go on the website to buy stuff. I haven’t really promoted it but I’m gonna relaunch it with some better gear. There’s a lot that I’ve still got to get popping off again.

Do you regret anything in life and, if so, what would it be?

No regrets. I’ve been listening to a lot of Jay Z recently [raps Jay Z’s “Regrets”]: When I was young you used to hold me / Told me that I was the best / Anything in this world I want I could possess / All that made me want is all that I could get / In order to survive, gotta learn to live with regrets... I’m with Jigga. If I’d done something different, I don’t know. I could’ve been richer but I might not have a family, my son. To me, that means so much more than money. Some money is also bad money.

Speaking of your son, does he know that you’re this famous rapper?

Yeah, he knows [laughs]. He doesn’t think I’m like 50 Cent or anything, but on the roads, people always stop me for pictures. Or when I bring him to school and everyone’s like “your dad’s Young Spray!” I’m doing this all for him, for my whole family.